[quote="[BBF"] Nor]
Doesn't bother me. Not really going to elaborate; be like trying to argue with a bull on why he's F'ing up the china shop.
[/quote]

I agree with the premise, but NOT the implementation. The argument is whether or not the bull has the RIGHT to be in the china shop, not the destruction it will cause if it has the right.

People have a right to their copyrights and intellectual property. They have a right to present you with cease and desists and other legal means to protect their properties. Then it's a case and it's handled, blah blah.

Imagine Activision doesn't like that we talk about SWTOR and have screenshots up from SWTOR. They can say we're infringing on their property and instead of sending a PM to Paco asking him to take it down, they go to the backbone internet provider that services the servers this is on and tells them that if they do not shut down the service to the BBF servers, they have to shut down all of their servers.

There's no real court-connected requirements with it the way the laws are currently presented.

In the end sites like this end up going away - because they don't want to risk being blasted apart because of the IP/Trademark/Copyright police.

It's just too open / vague / far-reaching of a rule-set to implement into practice - and that I agree with.

--Micah

[quote="[BBF"]Muggermadison]
I think this is an appropriate issue our group should be interested in and discussed. It affects us directly and we should understand it. This is dangerous legislation that has good intentions but there are deep issues in carrying it out. It just needs to be re-thought out. I am glad it is going down but it will not be gone for long, and we really need some solutions to this. It is not an easy thing to solve. We need to protect our IP as well as our freedoms.
[/quote]

It does need to be re-thought out, but unless we help contact our representatives and keep on top of these issues, they will just find ways to sneak stuff in.

This is NOT over, as pointed out by most of the organizations who protested. Keep informed and take that step most American's fail to take: Write or Call your Representatives and let them know what is important to you.

Wikipedia's page provides a zip code search: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Co ... up?new=yes

Google's page has a petition: www.google.com/landing/takeaction/

Assuming you guy's keep up with the news or read reddit, a bunch of senators withdrew support from the bills and Google got 4.5 million to sign their signatures. The internet really made me proud yesterday as it really did its job well. I heard people talking about it everywhere. Sure, they might have not all have been aware of the true consequences but it got them informed so much as it's on their mind.

Its a shame so many people get motivated to voice their opinions on something as minor as this. Every day bills are thought over, passed, and turned down that are so much more important than this one I can't even think of a witty comment for it. People live, die, eat, and starve -world wide- based on the actions of the US congress. The government messes up constantly, but only when there is a mere threat of some minor breach of free speech on the internet does the population get vocal.

It reminds me of the old Simpsons episode where Homer and his co-worker at the power plant can chose to either have much better benefits, or a pinball machine in the break room and they chose the game machine. The US middle class is getting annihilated, our debt is larger than our GDP, and almost half the population can't find work (or worse, doesn't want to). All these and worse are going on and the public sits idle (or at best bitches to friends and family). We all sit indifferent to the atrocities that go on in government, but woah, WOAH... think about censoring the interwebz and we throw down the gloves.

This is sad.

Yeah, you do have a couple good points Nor, but many don't think this is a minor issue. Also, your point about bills that are more important shouldn't discourage people from becoming more informed, taking a stance on an issue, and getting more involved.

It is attitudes like yours that point out the obvious without really encouraging anyone. Making those of us who don't get involved feel stupid isn't going to encourage us. Try making your point in a positive way, instead of saying this is sad. I totally agree with you that it is sad we choose this, yet have ignored so many other possibly more important issues which will affect our lives more, but at least it is something. It's quite a few something's that could change our experience on the Internet, which just so happens to be a HUGE part of our lives.

Like I mentioned, I didn't take the time until Minecraft put up the big "PIPA and SOPA how about NOPA" page. Yes, it may be sad that it takes a video game to get me more involved, but be thankful it did. Maybe more issues could be brought to our attention like this.


Free Speech isn't something I want to give up (sure, we already have some censorship and limitations, but not as bad as many other countries) but we shouldn't give corporations the tools to censor us from the rest of the world for their gain.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

It's more than censorship too.

I'm not involved in politics much and will admit it. At least sometimes I notice something that appears to affect my life which I am encouraged to take part in stopping. I'm very glad I have the right to to this, and glad we can put up information like this on the web on our website.

Being informed is not a bad thing. That is the primary goal I had with starting this post.


I'd sure hate to some day be cut off from our fellow clan members around the world, or services which might be very useful. China sure has it made with their censorship right? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_c ... c_of_China

My intentions weren't to bash you, or anyone taking a stance on this. I wasn't trying to make anyone feel bad really; I just get very frustrated. Clearly I should have reworded my post to be more clear in that. In game, out of game, everywhere people are blowing up over this. Why isn't everyone in general chat talking about the super groups that can secretly support presidential candidates? Why aren't gamers across the nation fighting to voice their opinions over the lack of government transparency or the inability to form a congressional budget for the past three years? What make this -specific- legislation so much more important?

I didn't bring up anyone's personal views, but since you volunteered: Why does this provoke a reaction out of you and other things don't? I don't think I'm better than you, I'm pretty sure you're not stupid, and I value your opinion. Please don't take this as anything other than me trying to find reasoning behind the very specific reaction this law is getting.

Congress could sign a bill that kills six thousand people overseas and gamers not even know about it, let alone care. There are plans in the works that could exclude a massive portion of patients to medical attention, I doubt anyone not in the medical field even knows what I'm talking about. Why did the two parties put the absolute most extreme party members on the "super committee" (group of congress to write a budget) knowing damn well there is ZERO chance of compromise with the members they selected? I'm just trying to figure out, why this new law is getting the attention it is where there is so much more stuff out there we could be throwing a fit over. I'm convinced I'm the one in the wrong as its pretty much me verses the internet in this.

No worries Nor. I understand your points and you can already see why we usually discourage political discussion so we can get back to playing games.

I guess I just wish more people who bring up the fact that many Americans aren't involved enough would offer encouragement rather than feeling sorry for us or complain. Often, the response is "What can I do?" when people think about particular political issues.

I should have also said Ignorant, because I am when it comes to politics. Much of it either bores me or upsets me because of how far from my 'reality', 'common sense', or 'world view' some of those who are elected are. It's like the more involved you get, the more you can lose sight of some of those simple things so easily taken for granted. I totally agree that campaigning and lobbying is out of control. I almost wish there was a way to do a "None of the above" like that Richard Pryor movie, except not with Richard Pryor...lol

This particular issue, though, I think spread quickly simply because of how many of us use the Internet, the websites and organizations involved, and of course the bandwagon effect.


I have to stop and take at least a little time to read when I see that sites like Wikipedia are taking their site down for a day. They have never done this to make a statement. They also narrowed down one of the largest varieties of information to "Here's what you should do" for a few issues which affect us all on the Internet. Very good tactic if you ask me. Now...to do things like that for more important issues is what we need to figure out.

[quote="[BBF"] Nor]
I just get very frustrated.[/quote]

QTF. Nor is, without a doubt, one of the biggest /ragequit or /postal candidates I've ever met in my life... and I work at a gaming company!!! =)

[quote="[BBF"] Nor]Why isn't everyone in general chat talking about the super groups that can secretly support presidential candidates? [/quote]

Because we haven't gotten organized to the point that we can compete with them. What really bothers me is why we haven't woken up to the simple fact that in many regards the president is nothing more than a palatable puppet put there to perform monkey-pushes-button tasks that're fed to him by the people that really have the power...

Presidential Candidates waste hundreds of millions of OUR dollars in their campaigns... and they're really not the ones we should be concerning ourselves with.

[quote="[BBF"] Nor]Congress could sign a bill that kills six thousand people overseas and gamers not even know about it, let alone care. There are plans in the works that could exclude a massive portion of patients to medical attention, I doubt anyone not in the medical field even knows what I'm talking about.[/quote]

Okay, I'm a pretty cold-hearted bugger. Killing 6000 people in a world of 7 billion could have a number of reasons behind it. If it made my commute easier, I'd probably support it. =)

As for the medical decisions - people are confusing RIGHTS with PRIVILEGES. Somehow overlooked and buried beyond the tree-hugging Hippocratic Oath has become the feel-good belief that everyone should be able to get cured of whatever ills they have - whether or not they can afford the remedies.

I've seen first-hand how a $1.2 billion-dollar "Free Care" budget can get blown through in less than half a year for a SINGLE hospital. I imagine someone out there has the statistics as to what percentage of Medical Bills that are actually served to people go unpaid. These unpaid bills cause the prices of insurance and services to go up to account for the money they actually expect NOT to receive now.. so that they can keep the lights on.

It's a broken model.. and if I don't stop now, I can go on for MONTHS about this subject - and I'm no longer in the medical field.. =)

[quote="[BBF"] Nor]I'm just trying to figure out, why this new law is getting the attention it is where there is so much more stuff out there we could be throwing a fit over. I'm convinced I'm the one in the wrong as its pretty much me verses the internet in this.[/quote]

One of the main focuses of Government is to keep us "controlled" by making us focus on "useless" issues while ignoring the real issues. If America wakes up to just how badly we're being manhandled by Corporations and Government.. there'd be a massive desire to fix it. This would potentially lead to a modern revolution.. and you can be SURE they don't want that...

Thus they hope to keep us distracted... and unfortunately the only way we can possibly truly change things is to get enough "detatched" people installed at every level of office from town Selectman/Mayor up through House Reps and Senators - to finally have the integrity and determination to tell Big Money, Corporate Interests and everyone else "NO, WE WILL NOT SELL OUT ANY LONGER"... and that's one absolutely difficult task.

I'd love to get involved and tackle something like that.. but I'm certainly not in a financial position to be able to do it, I'm certainly no role model and most importantly I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to actually vote for me =)

--Micah

[quote="[BBF"] Akkim]
QTF. Nor is, without a doubt, one of the biggest /ragequit or /postal candidates I've ever met in my life... and I work at a gaming company!!! =)
[/quote]
To clear the air, its not that I rage quit, sure... I nerdrage about every 10 min, but I'm not a quitter. =p The frustration I get is generally from things out of my control. Government, pugs in pvp, and things like that. Its a feeling of helplessness that the only way I can cope is to become vocal about it. In game, you all here my little girl crying. Even in raids where we wipe over and over, I vent to you in PMs. It not that I hate the person causing the wipes or that I don't want to be there, its just how I manage my frustrations. In real life, I write letters; what else is there to do?

[quote="[BBF"] Akkim]
As for the medical decisions - people are confusing RIGHTS with PRIVILEGES. Somehow overlooked and buried beyond the tree-hugging Hippocratic Oath has become the feel-good belief that everyone should be able to get cured of whatever ills they have - whether or not they can afford the remedies.

I've seen first-hand how a $1.2 billion-dollar "Free Care" budget can get blown through in less than half a year for a SINGLE hospital. I imagine someone out there has the statistics as to what percentage of Medical Bills that are actually served to people go unpaid. These unpaid bills cause the prices of insurance and services to go up to account for the money they actually expect NOT to receive now.. so that they can keep the lights on.

It's a broken model.. and if I don't stop now, I can go on for MONTHS about this subject - and I'm no longer in the medical field.. =)
[/quote]

I agree with you quite a bit here. Know what the difference between a Ferrari and an aortic/mitral valve replacement is? -Nothing- they both cost about about the same. ( www.oshpd.ca.gov/ ) Why is it, people expect free healthcare, but not free super-cars? If you want either, you need to plan for them. The current healthcare crisis involves medicare/caid reimbursing 70% on the dollar, which is why some medical institutions don't accept either. by 2013, if all goes as planned, this percent will drop to 40%. This will cause NO institutions to accept them. If the act forces practices to accept them, businesses -will not- run at a loss; The cost will be passed on to private pay. So the end result: someone either isn't getting care, or cant afford it.

The affordable healthcare act is already -destroying- healthcare opportunities and only a small percent has actually been implicated. This country only has two dominate industries: healthcare, and service (manufacturing is long gone and will stay so if Jeffery Immelt has anything to say about it). By the end of 2020 90% (just me guessing, no sourced evidence) of the population will be in the service industry, the military, or the unemployed. If you're in that 10% that isn't, be looking to support those who are.