I think anytime a person swears they should make a donation to the clan.

Haha good idea Mugger xD

I'm quite surprised, actually, by this response. The reason I put it on the forums in the way I did (complaining about the inconsistency, not the swearing itself) is that a lot of the time it's the GCs who are doing a lot of the swearing (not saying which, though!) and since I am an officer of a pretty much defunct game, I certainly don't feel like I'm in a place to ask anyone to stop.

There's also the issue of when it is ok to swear. If two people are in a channel and they're good, good mates and both like to swear and therefore are obviously not going to be bothered by it, is it ok for them to swear? If it is, when must they stop? When anyone else comes in, even if they swear too? Do they continue to swear until someone like me comes in? At the moment, certain people tone their language down when I enter the channel, but if there are five people in a channel dropping the f-bomb every minute or so, I feel way too uncomfortable and prudish to remind them of the rules against them - especially since I'm the only one objecting, so I feel more like I'm bringing up the rule for my own gratification than because it's actually a rule.

First of all let me say I am no saint and I find myself swearing a lot in TS.

Now this is the nth time someone has mentioned swearing in the TS server and then came back and said "oh but it's appropriate at times." when in fact it is never appropriate from a clan perspective.

Emma, I love you I do you are a great friend but right now you are contradicting yourself. It is never right but it's going to happen. Since this post has been up I can almost guarantee the TS server will die down language wise for a few months and then the foul language will pick up again.

TS is for me a comfort zone I feel relaxed no political relations, work relations, or anything I really need to care about in RL so yes I let loose at times and so do many others. I tend to not curse when we have guests or recruits in the server until they feel a little more comfortable themselves or when new members get in the server ill wait to know who it is. We have some stifflers out their but that is their job and I don’t blame them the slightest for telling me I'm in the wrong.

This is going to be never ending and I'm sure Paco (hey good buddy) is going to get on and say.

"No Emma swearing is never acceptable amongst good friends or or or well anything don’t swear in TS.

Which its true we really shouldn’t swear and I'll try to make a mental note of not doing it in TS but as Kildar said he never knew (pretty sure its posted in the rules channel) but 95% of new recruits and guests don’t read the rules or the clan charter so we all need to be a little more assertive and state the rules to newbies when they first enter TS.

P.S.
Paco didn’t mean to make you sound like a umm (cant swear) "Rear end?" just using you as an example you’re a good guy and you are just keeping us all in line (doing pretty decent I must say)

Emma for you my little New Zealand friend I will attempt to not swear and ill bonk everyone that does right on top the head with a…………. dirty diaper I seem to have an abundance of those so sounded good to me.

I know I am still in probation period but I would like to add in on this matter.

When I was in BBF a while back swearing was a serious issue and alot of members stated then that oh I wasn't aware of the rules that stated this was not allowed. I may be old fashioned in my thinking but each and every member when they applied to the clan filled out an application. Upon Completing the application you agreed to uphold the roles and responsibilities of being a member of Baptized by Fire. When I joined I was told by my GC at the time that I had to read and understand the rules and they are extreamly easy to find they are listed in TS when you connect to the server. Listed for everyone to read.

Now I will agree that at times when you die in game or something doesn't go your way you might use the s word or c word but to use the F Bomb or call someone by name then use a term that everyone here will agree is unbecoming of a member of BBF it is completely unacceptable.

I would of never allowed the explination of oh sorry didn't know the rules. It is unacceptable to use it in the presence of your family isn't it. Well I consider alot of ppl in this clan like members of my extended Family and I get extreamly offended to hear another member use that language towards another member.

I told all members under my command back in the day if you wouldn't say it to your mother I better not ever and I mean ever hear it come through the air waves where I can hear it plain and simple.

In the end every member of this clan was choosen to be such because you showed a maturity level a cut above all others out there in the gaming community and using foul language even in a joking manner brings down the Image and Character Standing that alot of Members Past and present worked extreamly hard to build over the past 11 years this clan has been here. The reason we have had that success is because of those rules and standards that the CLB has put into place to make this a friendly and an outstanding clan that I consider myself extreamly lucky to be apart of.

Ok I am off my soap box

Good Night

Yun

sigh.

I was hoping that their could be a natural balance in teamspeak that has existed well in the past. If you are uncomfortable, please say something in a friendly way to let others know. That way this can be a matter of respect, and not rules. This clan operates so much more smoothly on respect, rather than rules. But alas, here we are having this conversation again because a few people have not spoken up in team speak, and have decided to make this a clan-wide issue again. And the result may very well be many people unwantedly having to enforce constraints on other's habits, comfortableness, and cultural expression. And I have a problem with that.

I would like to treat this from a more realistic perspective. This is a cultural conflict, not a matter of right and wrong. The people that have ultimate authority over this clan, and pay for team speak, have the final say. They may choose to use their own personal opinions to create the rules, or they may choose to have democracy; recognizing the different opinions within the clan and allowing a mutual comfortableness that is flexible for whomever is present within team speak, and allow us to operate on a matter of respect for others, the way we should. Neither of these views are right or wrong.

Also, consider this. You may think it is rude for other people to "swear" in your presence, but I consider it to be just as rude to ask people to alter their natural form of speaking for your own personal comfortableness. It is as though you are saying to someone that your own comfortableness is more important than theirs. Language is very habitual, and is the foundation of cultural and social interaction, and to ask someone to alter it in your presence is asking a much bigger favor, than to ask someone to merely tolerate hearing something that their parents, culture, friends, or religion has told them is wrong. You don't like "Swearing", then don't swear. But don't ask people to stop saying words that aren't hateful, or used for harm, just because you've been taught to dislike it.

Lastly, I have had many conversations on this matter, and have concluded for quite some time that any predispositions toward certain words is a matter of personal taste, and usually have no substance in reason or rational thought. It is important for us to be kind to one another and respect each other, and practicing restraint is just as important as practicing tolerance. Both will take you very far.

So please, if you don't like a word that has no harmful intent, then don't try to enforce your own personal tastes on others. If you honestly can't manage your sanity or peace around this "swearing" then please consider the offenders by showing them enough respect to ask them nicely to practice restraint in your presence, as though they have the capacity and desire to support your tastes. I personally am pretty flexible and have no problems with altering my speech for anyone in this wonderful clan, I love you all. But I don't want people unwillingly enforcing other peoples perspectives, especially when they do not share them.

I can understand a lot that is being said in this topic and from my personal stand point of being the Game Commander of COD:MW2, I do notice swearing happening in TS. Now lets not promise to be someone we are not. Just about everyone uses those words of curse and its come down to us having an over abundance of it. I will talk to people who are more then happy to express themselves in an unacceptable manner on TS. I do say it is not the swearing that I listen for as much as the tone of voice and who it is being directed at. If I hear a clan mate tell a fellow clan mate to "Fuck off or anything lacking the proper respect" I will step in. I have played with my clan mates for awhile now and being able to express ourselves freely amongst friends shows that we have strong bonds, Nothing that someone would get offended over. Just from talking to each other we all have a personal understanding of how our fellow clan mates express themselves and we can tell if it is getting out of hand. Unfortunately not everyone steps in to stop it from reaching the boiling point and if you find yourself unable to say anything find someone who can. When we really pull together is when we get a new person in TS, we play many games with them and gauge them to find out what their comfort zone is and make sure not to pass that line.

People cuss in Teamspeak. Yes, it is true. From what Puma said earlier "So please, if you don't like a word that has no harmful intent, then don't try to enforce your own personal tastes on others." Its too easy to tune someone out or even mute them on Teamspeak. Thats the wonderful thing about the internet and free will, you can choose what you hear and who hears what you say. But honestly, people using cuss words is as natural as going to the bathroom to a lot of people. People who cuss have grown up or gotten into the habit of cussing and quite frankly its harder than quitting smoking. If you don't like what people are saying you don't have to listen. There is no harm in asking that specific individual to please respect you as a person and cut down on it in front of you if you don't like it. I'm glad I live by a simple philosophy, "Live and let live." As long as someone doesn't punch me in the face or personally attack me in any way I'll let you do you and let me do me. We can all get along but just as Puma said earlier it takes tolerance just as much as restraint to live in the modern world. So lets all get along, show eachother the respect we all feel we deserve and be adults. Even though this is a 16+ age clan I think even 16+ age individuals can have the respect and "golden rule" common courtesy to make things flow nicely.

Puma, Shiro and Smiggy all make excellent points.

There is a point when making it a rule or "law" simply is absurd. The wording of the rule is simple and with a large ??? area -

NO: Spamming the airwaves, which includes excessive talking, whining, or swearing. (Simple wording)
and
4.1.1 - Members are to conduct themselves maturely. NO harassment, disrespect or inappropriate language when communicating with BBF members or other gamers. This means you should treat BBF members and other gamers with respect at all times. (Could be considered more of a "What do you consider inappropriate"?)

This can be interpreted in a vast aray of colorful language. As stated - for some, swearing is second nature and the person saying it will often do it without the realization they are even doing it. Whereas inappropriate language can be a very vast pool of comminication that can be offensive while also remaining intellingent.

I'm in agreement that if the people that are in the channel with you are displaying colorful language and no one steps up and says,"Excuse me, could you not say that around me?" then there really is no grounds for complaint. The first rule of human relations is to understand to whom you are speaking to and to understand what they are relaying to you no matter how they choose to do it (IE - colorful language).

As mature adults, having free speech and the ability to speak to eachother in a mature matter, we should be able to communicate with each other both intellectually and as 16 year olds who are having fun.

Playing video games is an act worthy of being 16 years old and allows us the freedom to step away from the serious things that are happening in our lives. The very last thing I hope to have to worry about is offending someone because my language was colorful.

In addition, as stated, as long as the person offended can step up (which means feeling comfortable enough to actually speak up in TS, OR go to the GC) and as long as no member is saying things to intentionally hurt the feelings of another player ("Screw you, Dakota!" after being killed by him for the 15th time does not count ) then we should strive here, as we often do in our personal lives, to tolerate some of the language of others, and try to NOT infringe on our freedom of speech.

In closing, I am an animal of adjustment. Being as such, I can police my language if asked, or if so ruled to. I would expect every normal, or otherwise strange, member of society to do the same.

After all, we are all mature gamers, right?

All I can say is wow to the last 4 posts. Great job guys I agree 100%. I have been in the can for a while now and know the people I play with and a lot I don’t play with often and I can tell when they are joking or being disrespectful towards one and you can bet your ass ill jump in and correct someone if they are being disrespectful.

I couldn’t tell you how many racists or sexists the clan has and I can guarantee we have a few because I know I have over heard a few conversations on both topics and I have heard ex-members be racist towards other members of a different race or ethnic background and like I said I will stop it ASAP GC or not I don’t want to hear it and nor does BBF from my understanding so as far as language goes then I'll stick with what I have to but until the day I hear someone in TS say "Hey can we tone it down", "Please don’t way that while I'm on", or "Or hey guys virgin ears here please stop swearing" I will probably swear still (granted I have toned down myself and I believe TS in general has).

We have members who do not want to hear the swearing.

There is a rule against swearing and a rule to respect others.

I hate to have to be the ass, because it's not fun, and I don't like it having to be a strict rule, but it's the only way it works. Either swearing or no swearing. We had no swearing as a rule for years and it was perfectly fine. If you can't control yourself, go somewhere else.



So, no swearing from this point on unless enough leaders wish to discuss the rule again (no this is not the 'brass' or 'higher ups' it means all GC's and up who have to deal with enforcing the rules).


It has been discussed many times, we've tried allowing swearing, and we've tried the approach of "if you're in company who doesn't mind", but it isn't something which is easy to define, keep track of, etc.


So, don't swear. That includes myself. I've been known to swear some on TS too, and try not to jump in and scold members every time, but we have to get it under control again as I do hear A LOT of swearing on TS now.[hr:2asanzjk][/hr:2asanzjk]
I must state that I'm not ending the topic, and encourage discussion. I just think until there is a decision to change our rule back, we should enforce it. (plus I know swearing has been happening more over the last few months)


GC's, feel free to get some feedback from members and start a topic if you want to change the rule back. I can look up our last topic, but I believe it was just earlier this year that the decision was made to switch it back to no swearing.